Is there a project that covers these pre-1700 people?

Question

I want to contribute to the deep genealogy on our shared tree. Here are people I can add, along with dates and locations:

• All the ancestors of the last Chief in name and Arms for the Logan Family, Hugh Logan, a few are on there, but most are missing.

Here are the sources I am using:

• Old Parish Registers Births for Ayrshire
• Testament Datives for Ayrshire, Edinburgh and in the Glasgow Commissary Court
• Retours and Sasine documents.

Should I contact one of the pre-1700 projects or know about any style guidelines before proceeding? Thank you!

Answer 1

Sean, I have added an estimated date of birth which makes Alexander's profile pre-1500. You are unable to edit it for this reason but I've kept you on the trusted list and made the Scotland Project a pm. As you do further research on Alexander, you can post in the comment section on the profile when you need the project to add additional information/sources which you find. Thanks for your interest in improving these early Scottish profiles.

Jen, Scotland Project co-leader

Comments

Hello, thank you for your help.  I do have a concern with delinking Alexander Logan from Patrick Logan.  While I agree it is possible that he could be a brother or uncle it is also very common that a son would do this to ensure he is getting the property.  

Is there some other way we can link them as I think it is important that someone can see he is there already and that there was a clear succession.

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I have added a research note on both profiles providing a link between them. Although it seems logical to assume that the precept referred to was a precept of sasine, it was not actually identified as such. It could also have been an injunction against committing a particular act or a specific instruction of some kind. See this article for a discussion of the word 'precept' as used in medieval Scotland. It was not uncommon for a title to succeed to another branch of the family if there was no direct male heir. One way to provide a more permanent link between them might be to use a succession box, but I think quite a bit more research needs to be done before that happens.
 

Answer 2

Sounds like you should join the Scotland project?  The initial part is self-guided to help you learn about Sources and information on the project.

We have a Clan Logan page and there is a Category page for Clan Logan that has some profiles included in it.

Comments

Hi, I applied a bit ago and was not accepted as I am not quite yet to 100 contributions.  I suspect I will get there shortly.  Let me know if you think I should apply again.  

Sean

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Just keep adding some more profiles to your connections and you will get up to 100 contributions.  Most projects want people to be a little comfortable with Wikitree before doing the learning trails.  At least you have some pages that you can review.  You can always add comments to the Clan page if you have information that should be added.

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Sounds good, I am in the process of loading all known Logan chiefs with cited sources.  I will, shortly, suggest some changes to the Clan Logan page, but I will check with the Society President to make sure he agrees with my suggestion.  Thanks!

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Hello, quick question.  I need to add two individuals who were born prior to 1500 and am yet to be certified.  Is there someone that can help me with that?

Answer 3

If you are going to be working with Clan chief profiles, you should first familiarize yourself with the Guidelines for profiles that are part of the Scotland Project. See: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Scotland_-_Project_Guidelines

These are things that will be taught in the Tartan Trail. While I see you have indicated some sources, they need to be a bit more complete so others can find the data. You're headed in the right direction.

I recommend getting more experience so you can do the Tartan Trail.

Comments

Hello, thanks, if you don't mind can you please take a look at the following profile and let me know if you have any feedback, other than I need to update his father and so on, which I am in the process of doing.  

A follow up question, I will eventually need to add two people who was born prior to 1500.  Is that something someone can help me with as I don't yet have the pre1500 certification.  I am happy to share the documentation.  

George (Logan) Logan vii of Logan (abt.1635-aft.1701) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

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Please review Scotland Sourcing Help for source citations and examples.  Not sure where you got any of the sources from on that profile. 

On a quick review of that profile, you removed quite a bit of info, with no explanation or sources.

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Hello, I do apprecaite the feedback.  A few comments/questions:

1) regarding sources what do you suggest when they are not online?  Should I put a picture of the original, if it exists or the transcription that was taken and by whom? Most without a link came from the National Records of Scotland.  Note, Scotland's People is a great resource, and I use it, but it often does not have the kind of data that I included in the example, those you need to go in person (or hire someone to do so).  What do you recommend?

2) I will update my book sources in other profiles based on the example in that link, thanks.  

3) The changes made were communicated and approved by the profile manager.  All of her data came from a book that has quite a lot of errors.  Furthermore, I summarized what I removed at the bottom "Note, In the book "History of the Logan Family" by Major G. J. N....."

4) I could use some help on how to get the 2 individuals added for pre1500.  

Edit, I did a sample from the NRS.....

Allan Logan - WikiTree Profile

Thanks again, Sean.

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One key item is to avoid abbreviations since not everyone will recognize them. Then provide a good description of what the record covers. Citations answer 5 questions:

1. who caused the record to be created
2. what is the record
3. when was the record created
4. where in the record is the specific data
5. where can the record be found

The first citation in Allan Logan has abbreviations. NRS is probably National Records of Scotland. That would make RD4/24 the collection of Register of Deeds second series (is that where you found the marriage contract?).

The other problem is having a death date and location without a reliable source cited. That is a pre-1700 requirement.

Pre-1500 will require having everything up to them defined with reliable sources and then working with a pre-1500 certified person.

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Sources that aren't online still need to indicate where the records were found. This is part of the citation. A citation makes it possible for another researcher to easily find a source. They might need to visit an archive or hire someone to go for them, but a good citation makes it findable.

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As far as the Pre-1500 profiles, I would work on proper sourcing of the profiles leading up to those profiles to make sure of the Pre 1500 person.  Are you using reliable sources for the information that you think you have found for the pre-1500 profiles?  Are you sure they are not already in wikitree?

Very few people have the Pre-1500 Certification.  You will have to do quite a bit of work on other profiles, work with a project, etc to prove that you can research properly for that time period.

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Hi, replying to all.....Thank you all for your feedback.  I will review my citations and do my best to follow the gridlines as suggested.  I understand the desire not to use abbreviations and will avoid it as much as possible.  I also agree I should not use a firm date if I don't have an ability to cite the data...I was not quite finished with Allan yet.  

Regarding pre-1500 I understand and would not add someone if the data was not clear.  To clarify my question, if I have clear data is there someone that would be willing to help me add that person?

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Post again when you have the child of the person sourced.  You can add comments to that profile stating who you think the parent(s) are with the reliable sources.

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Hi Linda, Thanks.  This one was relatively simple as there is only two sources for Patrick Logan and one for his father Alexander, both from the Protocol book of Gavin Ross.  None of my data will give a firm birth date for Alexander Logan so I actually have added him and left it blank.  I am able to cite a source for a "before xx death date" so I did that.  While it is very likely that he was born before 1500, it is far from certain, so I suggest we leave them as is.  Thoughts?  

Alexander (Logan) Logan i of Logan - WikiTree Profile