Comments on Steven Paul Jobs

+5 votes
396 views

On 11 Mar 2021 Andrew Moore wrote on Jobs-9:

I agree that listing his adoptive parents as his birth parents is disingenuous. He may have considered his adoptive parents as his true parents, but they most certainly didn't pass him their genes.

Other commenters agree.  Certainly his adoptive parents are his true parents for his life, but his biological parents are his actual parents for genealogy.

Is it possible to align Steve Jobs' parentage with the genealogical purposes of WikiTree?

WikiTree profile: Steve Jobs
in Genealogy Help by Shirlea Smith G2G6 Pilot (290k points)
think it is the only way to connect him to global tree, not that that is a great answer.

ah, that may be true so far!  Maybe we should work on that!

The profile manager says it is being done because Steve Jobs honoured his adoptive parents so much, and had rather impersonal attitude toward his bio parents.

The profile manager adds "Given this statement, I have listed his adoptive parents as his father and mother on this profile. Which means that any of Steven's actual relatives will be unable to use this the Wikitree genealogical database to confirm or disprove a documented genealogical connection to Steven or to compare DNA results to make the same analysis thus rendering the purpose of this site null and void for this profile. This profile will be a brick wall for descendants of Steven Jobs who would like to research their genetic heritage."

If parentage in WikiTree is going to be based on the attitude to the parental figures, that will be odd, to say the least.  What if i love my mom and my stepdad best?

his parents are marked as non-bio in the bullets on the edit page under each parent.
You can connect to the global tree using non-biological parents as there is a legal relationship between the adoptee and adopter(s). However, you cannot trace any DNA linkages once you insert a "non-Bio" into the mix. So there are disadvantages with using a non-biological connection, but if that's the way it needs to be done, it can be.

I shouldn't stick my nose in here, but being a resident DNA dweeb...the way in which WikiTree handles adoptive parents has always been problematic to me. Even so, using this instance as an example, the Help page explicitly states: "As explained above, for non-living people genetic connections should prevail."

My core problem with the matter is that we're redefining the meaning of "genealogy" if who we list as parents is optional. It isn't based on legality or preference. It's right there in the etymology of the word: it comes from the Greek, genealogia, "the making of a pedigree"; from genea, "generation, descent"; and this is derived from the Proto-Indo-European root gene; "give birth, beget." It's based on biology.

I'm certainly not saying that adoptive parents are not the most important to an individual's life. In many if not most cases, they certainly are. But by definition there's no genealogical pedigree that stems from a set of adoptive parents...even though for all of us as we move back in time our genetic family tree will become much smaller than our genealogical family tree (instances of pedigree collapse become more and more numerous the farther back in time we go).

As in Steve Job's case, listing the adoptive parents--even though they're marked as non-biological--throws off the accuracy of the tree for everything from Google search results to the WikiTree Relationship Finder and Connection Finder. By the latter, I'm supposedly 27 degrees from Steve Jobs. But I'm not. That connection goes through Paul Jobs; genealogically a completely false connection.

The constraint is that WikiTree can only have one mother and one father in its database. Ideally, that's what could change. It would be a more complex alteration than it might seem on the surface because it would involve not just database schema changes but also user interface changes.

I think one alternative might exist. It also goes against WikiTree policy, but I think it would be a solution that, while still involving some programming change, likely wouldn't be as extensive. That would be to allow an individual to have two profiles instead of only one. Then set a new privacy status perhaps called "Adoptee." Two pedigrees could then be built out and maintained as completely separate, though code changes would need to be made to exclude that status from all DNA tools and the Relationship Finder, and include a way to flag the results in the Connection Finder (there are almost certainly other changes that would be needed, as well).

Just thinking out loud. But it's simply inaccurate genealogy to have an adoptee's legal parents as the foundation for the lineage rather than the biological parents. And if the bio parents are unknown, I think something like the two-profile solution may be the only practical way for an adoptee to use WikiTree and be able to keep their research distinct and, perhaps even more importantly, to keep the resultant data accurate for the overall tree.

Well, the only qualification I'll throw in is that the "degrees" thing is not based on DNA, but legal relationships as well. So if you marry, that relationship is 1 degree away. No DNA involved. And the non-bio will block a "DNA" relationship from being found. So technically, no DNA relationships should ever appear on his profile unless he's switched to his genetic parents. It is awkward, but I understand why it was done. And I agree that we "should" utilize the genetic parents as much as possible, as it creates a more accurate tree, but we do allow for situations where that doesn't work out.

To my knowledge, Scott, the "degrees thing" is not genealogy. It's a handy and interesting construct that came about because of the now-iconic "7 degrees from Kevin Bacon."

And we certainly have unavoidable errors in the tree pre-1900 because, especially in regions and periods like the westward expansion in America, adoptions often were not documented as such.

But if we know we have the non-biological parents connected to the tree as if they were the only set of parents?

It isn't solely about DNA reporting. DNA reporting is generalized at best at WikiTree because we can process no actual comparisons since we don't have access to the actual data, and it's wholly dependent upon the accuracy of an individual member's research and adherence to WikiTree guidelines (for example, we still 547 profiles showing as having taken DNA tests before DNA tests were ever available, and that doesn't include the 34 profiles that contain information about testing conducted on ancient remains). It isn't just about DNA reporting. It's about showing only one set of parents.

I understand why the current conditions were chosen as well. But, truly, it's a Band-Aid on the problem, isn't it? If I'm an adoptee, I'm forced to choose a single set of parents to put on WikiTree. If we're talking genealogy, that has to be the biological parents. We can't change the definition of genealogy: "a line of descent traced continuously from an ancestor."

But assume I'm a living adoptee and want to research my adoptive line more than my biological line, and say I don't flag the parents as non-biological because I want those relationships to show in WT reporting. How do things work then? Especially when I die: if that non-biological status wasn't set, what happens to the way WikiTree handles the inheritance chain of profiles in the way it shows reports and relationships going forward?

So I have to make what is basically an untenable choice: I can connect only one mother and one father to my profile. If I want to research both lines, I have to keep one of them unconnected to me.

For individuals who are already deceased, though (like Steve Jobs where we know the identities of both sets of parents), the WikiTree guidelines seem pretty unequivocal: "for non-living people genetic connections should prevail."

I'm with Edison on this question and I was adopted by a wonderful father as well who raised me to become the person I am. However, a genealogical tree is about biological relationships and thus this profile is unfortunately wrong and needs to be correct IMO.

It sets a bad example as Steve is so famous, other people will copy this along with their best intent.

Yes, the relationship to his adoptive parents should be noted down and there's ample space where one can also write down his view about his adoptive parents vs his biological one.

As for having two profiles for one person I disagree with Edison, not only from a developer POV myself (as I have my own app which just focuses on biological relationships) but also from the consequences a duplicate profile approach would have.

It's a lot easier to maybe have an additional field for all non-biological parental relationships, like the GEDCOM standard defined (eg. adoption, step/foster etc.).
I have this situation with a cousin, she prefers to be linked to her adoptive father, and I created her profile on that basis. Her half sister created another profile in the biological family, and I then linked the two profiles.
 Wikitree does allow duplicate profiles for adoptees, a rare exception to the one person one profile rule.
Edison, as Gary pointed out, WikiTree does allow some flexibility to have duplicate profiles for living persons to represent adoptive and biological parents.

For deceased persons there should only be one linked to biological parents. Jobs’ profile is not in compliance. I agree that a deceased person’s estrangement or sentiments expressed at one time or another should not be immortalized in WikiTree parent/child relationships. Adoptive parents of deceased persons should only be linked (and marked non-bio) if the biological parents are unknown.
Actually, WT policy is flexible enough to allow duplicate profiles for non-living people, under Conflicting or Sensitive Choices, the wording is "genetic connections should prevail", if genetic connections were mandatory the "should" would have replaced with "must", so a slight bit of wriggle room, and this clearly is a sensitive case with living relatives.
 In this setting a mirror image profile could be created, and merged at an appropriate future date.
Gary, that seems a real stretch for Steve Jobs profile. The fuller policy quote is "As explained above, for non-living people genetic connections should prevail. However, there is flexibility when living people are involved."

Steve Jobs died 12 years ago. None of his close biological or adoptive family are WikiTree members who have asserted an interest (they are free to join and chime in). He is as globally notable a public figure as it gets. There's no reason to twist settled WikiTree policy to link his adoptive parents in this case, much less by self-appointed unrelated profile managers who lack standing to claim the sensitivity interests concerned.

In the long run I think WikiTree would benefit from being able to separately link adoptive and biological parents (other websites and software support this); but within current technical capabilities, the current policy is reasonable and ought to be followed, including here.

2 Answers

+6 votes
For the first time, I recently worked on the profile of an individual who was adopted. I had checked off non-biological.

After asking a question, it was suggested to me to add the adoption template.

I would encourage the use of the template.  Here is the URL of the template  - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template:Adopted_Child
by Russell Butler G2G6 Pilot (150k points)
Yes, I agree, the Adopted Child template is very helpful. I hope the profile manager considers adding it.
That's been done.
–1 vote
Have you downloaded a copy of your DNA Raw Data to your computer as yet? You are entitled to a copy free of charge. Once you have it upload a copy to www.gedmatch.com   which is also free. Be sure to write down the kit number Gedmatch gives you somewhere safe as you will need it to perform various tests. When Gedmatch has finished manipulating the data to work with their system which takes about three working days, do a One to Many test as it will display all of your cousins along with the tree owner's email address which enables you to make contact with them.
by Max Bancroft G2G6 (7.6k points)

Related questions

+1 vote
0 answers
+3 votes
0 answers
140 views asked Feb 5, 2023 in Requests for Project Volunteers by Ann Brown G2G4 (4.4k points)
+17 votes
7 answers
+8 votes
3 answers
373 views asked Mar 21, 2019 in Genealogy Help by Melissa Moon G2G1 (1.3k points)
+16 votes
0 answers
227 views asked Nov 12, 2022 in The Tree House by Gaile Connolly G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
+3 votes
1 answer
+20 votes
2 answers
438 views asked Jun 28, 2019 in The Tree House by LJ Russell G2G6 Pilot (221k points)
+4 votes
0 answers

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...