Any suggestions on specific Scottish research?

Question

My Cousin John sent me this and I am afraid it is a bit out of my ken.  I feel I personally don't have the resources to really help him.

My grandmother on my mom's side was Mary Grace Guthrie, born in Delaware, in 1905. Her family was from Scotland. Her father was John T Guthrie 1865-1911. John's father was William Guthrie 1820-1893. His father was Walter Guthrie 1794-1897. His father was William Guthrie Apri 29, 1753, a fisherman born in Elie, Fife Scotland and he died January 6, 1829 in Elie, Fife Scotland. All this is in my Young Family Tree. Now back to my Grandmother, Mary. Before she died in 1981 she got a letter from the Guthrie Castle in Scotland. The Guthrie castle has records dating to 1435 as it was built in Guthrie village by Sir David Guthrie in 1435. The Chief Lord of Justice of Kingoldrum. His father, Sir David Guthrie and mother, Janet De Dundas both have has extensive Ancestry documentation when I researched them. Colonel Ivan Guthrie was the last family member/owner of the castle. When Mary received the letter it said she was the next hier to the Guthrie Castle. My family was very excited especially my Mother Gloria. Mary said she could not afford to own the family castle as she was told it was a very expensive property to own. I know my mother Gloria saw the letter but I have no idea where it went. So, when Colonel Ivan Guthrie died in 1983, the castle went up for sale. Before Mary died she was told the castle would go back to the state and would become a museum because of its history. But, a Mexican/American rich oil man named Daniel Pena, bought the castle in 1985 and restored it. He built a golf course around it and it's used for wedding venues and such. So, you are great at the Wiki research. With what I have provided, can you PLEASE provide any proof my Grandmother was actually offered the Guthrie Castle in her lifetime or was actually the heir to that famous castle. You have access to records that I could never dream of. Maybe the Guthrie Castle has a history on the Wiki site?? Maybe with what I have found on Ancestry you can add it, if not?? I just have so much trouble still on the site. Thank you very much. John

I believe it goes back to David Guthrie here on WikiTree.  If you like to contact John, I'll be glad to PM his contact information.  He has found the Guthrie Clan site, but he not sure if they can help.

Thanks in advance, LJ

Edited: P.S. I am related through his father so I never ran into this.

Answer 1

I'm afraid that what I found  shows that Ivan was survived by at least one daughter.

Lt Colonel Ivan Guthrie   died in 1964 not 1983.  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Guthrie-2636  There  are several secondary sources but I found  no primary source so this could be checked on Scotlands People.  I was able to find one  newspaper source mentioning that  died then and that afterwards the estate was administered by trustees which is worth researching.    It is very probable that he left a will. https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/wills-and-testaments.  His  eldest daughter Moyra Irene Gutherie appears to have been his heir She  died in 1984 . She  married an army officer Mark Phillips in April 1944  at Wellington Barracks. She had two children. Her grandson (son of her daughter https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Phillips-21798) was her heir. He died in 2020  at the age of 52. I haven't looked any further. The castle was first sold by 'the family'  prior to Moyra's death, not 1985. 

 Ivan Guthrie died  in 1964

 'but in the time of Col. Ivan Douglas Guthrie, the last laird, who died in 1964... Since Col. Guthrie’s death the estate is administered by trustees 

 British Newspaper Archive, Aberdeen Press and Journal Saturday 15 August 1970

sale of castle in 1984 mentioning previous sale

 US Oilman is new owner of Guthrie Castle GUTHRIE Castle, near Arbroath one of Scotland’s loveliest smaller castles and for centuries home of the Guthrie family has been sold to American oil millionaire, Mr Daniel Pena. Two years ago the Guthrie family sold the castle and grounds to property developer Mr Neil Rae who in turn now sold it to Mr Pena. Mr had been given approval Angus District Council to convert the castle and grounds into a holiday complex including the provision of 50 timesharing holiday villas. Mr Pena, however, intends to make the castle his Scottish home and will be developing the holiday complex. 

British Newspaper Archives, Aberdeen Press and Journal-Tuesday 23 October 1984

Marriage of Moyra 

AT THE GUARDS CHAPEL Lieutenant Mark Henry Philips, Coldstream Guards, elder son of Lieutenant-Colonel and Mrs. H. B. Philips. of Heybridge, Tean, Staffordshire was married at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks. London to-day, to Miss Moyra  Irene Guthrie, elder daughter of Colonel Ivan Guthrie of Guthrie. M.C and Mrs. Guthrie, of Guthrie Castle. Forfarshire.  

 British Newspaper Archives Saturday 15 April 1944 

 Interestingly Moyra  was also at sometime known by the surname of Perry (another marriage?)  In  1969  Moya Irene Guthrie widow of Henley on Thames 'abandoned the surname of Perry'

 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/44892/page/7102/data.pdf

Moyra  Irene Guthrie of Guthrie's Grave is  in Guthrie churchyard.

https://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=750483

Succession; http://www.scotarmigers.net/ssagallery/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=88  

Comments

And thus Helen, another family oral history falls to the wayside. If Ivan had a daughter, she would have been the closest heir.  Not only through bloodline, but general location as well.  The Privacy of those having lived in the past 100 years in the United Kingdom makes it hard for those not used to dealing with the information available for that time. You want info on someone in the US, I can get you that, but the UK and Europe, I am a novice and must rely on the kindness of strangers.  So thank you very much for your hard work Helen. As Don Rickles the comedian would exclaim when someone did good, "You get a cookie."

Your information makes me question, even more, the validity of said letter bestowing the castle upon his Grandmother should she accept it.  How she was traced then is what worries me the most.

As he based some of his family relation assumptions on Ancestry Family Histories, I began to retrace his research as we all know how extremely accurate those family histories can be. ;)  Have only gotten to his great grandfather.  Just a little hard pressed for time researching my own family to devote great resources to his other side of the family.  I will only get to do so in dribs and drabs.

Again, my heartiest gratitude for your time and effort Helen.

Answer 2

Maybe these links in Kitty's Library?  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Kitty%27s_Library#Scotland

Comments

Thanks Kitty, I'll pass it on to him.

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If you don't mind Susan, this was my question and I will pick the Best Answer.

Answer 3

Scotland's People is a great source of information

Comments

Thanks Beth, I'll pass it on to him. Though it will probably take a long time for him to talk to all the People in Scotland.  LOL

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Silly LJ.    Searching Scotland's People for records is free, but you do need to register. 
To actually see the records will cost real money, but you get a bunch of credits for x-Currency, so it depends on how much you're willing to spend how many records you can buy.  (Once bought you can download them as a pdf, or just leave them in your account and look at them there.  (Even if you download them, they stay there — at least I haven't lost any of the one I've bought.))

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LOL, LJ

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Melanie, thanks for the further explanation. I often find that FreeRegUK has the information for free that one would pay to see in SP's. It just depends on whether the volunteers have had time to transcribe. Also, I've been able to find out a lot about family groups just by seeing the basic info in SP. So the pay to view shouldn't discourage anyone, IMHO.

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Agreed about FreeReg.  It can be helpful if the volunteers there have reached the records you're wanting.
Also agreed re SP and basic info.  Once you are familiar with how to best search their database, it's much easier to find the information you want. 
Then, too, if where your research is taking you covers the years around 1881, there is a free to view LDS census for that year and that can give good clues for the preceding census and the following one (which are both pay to view).  For those there is also FreeCen.

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Thanks, Melanie!