Help finding a Thomas Phillips b 1600's who was affiliated with The Society of Friends?

+2 votes
226 views
Grandfather of Rachel Humphrys Nesbitt of Ballyhaise, Ireland.
WikiTree profile: Rachel Nesbitt
in Genealogy Help by Jane Cobb G2G1 (1.7k points)
Do you have any information as to where Thomas Phillips lived?
I believe England but cannot find any documentation.  All I have seen is a family tree via John Nesbitt Dowling circa 1929 stating Rachel Humphrys was the granddaughter of Thomas Phillips/Society of Friends.  I have seen a Thomas Phillips from Wales but cannot connect the dots.
What information do you have on Rachel's father? If you can create a profile with what information you have, that may be a starting point. Absent information on her father, I don't know how we could determine the grandfather who has a somewhat common name.

Do you have access to Quaker records at FindMyPast or Ancestry for England? Just didn't want to duplicate searches you may have already undertaken.
I have zero information on Rachel's parents.  I just recently cancelled my Ancestry acct and I do not have FMP.  

I've sat on this particular relative for over 2 yrs and have just hit brick walls every time. Never been sure where to go next.  

I do appreciate all your help!
I'll ask the Irish Quakers team to have a look and see if there is anything suggesting her parentage.
Thank you!

1 Answer

+2 votes
There's an item in the Crossle Genealogical Abstracts at FindMyPast which is a hand-drawn family tree drawn up c.1944, listing the marriage in 1661 of George Humphrys to Rachel Phillips, daughter of Thomas Phillips (c.1620-1700) and Jane or Hannah Richardson. It doesn't give details of their children, and it doesn't mention the Friends, but it seems likely that this is the family John Nesbitt Dowling was referring to.

EDIT : It has lots of connections to knights and baronets and MP's, but not a lot in the way of sources, and notes that there is disagreement between those sources it does mention. I'll try to find some sourced profiles on Wikitree to link to.
by Gina Meyers G2G5 (5.6k points)
edited by Gina Meyers
I have never heard of Crossle Genealogical Abstracts, so this  information could be quite interesting.  

I so appreciate any information at all!

I have profiles up for [[Humphrys-187|George Humphrys]] and [[Phillips-46220|Rachel Phillips]]. There's no further info on the Crossle pedigree which might connect them to your Rachel Humphrys of Ballyhaise, so more work needed there, but it seems like it would be worth following. smiley

Awesome work ~ thank you!

Just to add to Gina Myers' very helpful response, Francis Crossle and his son Philip were professional Irish genealogists. Their papers are now available on FMP. Some documents are for their reference - copies of lists of deeds, bills, wills etc - and some are working papers in files for research they did for different clients. I get the impression that they were extremely meticulous, better than people like Burke, but you have to check whether what you are looking at is their finished research or just something they copied from someone else for information. As Gina rightly notes, this pedigree is just copied from someone else, although even then the Crossles have added a note with their own doubts.

The pedigree itself mentions a few more facts about Thomas Phillips than Gina has noted. It has something (which I can't read) dated 1662 in a place which is probably Belturbet. This is a town in county Cavan where the people you ask about are supposed to have been based. Then there is a note (not clear whether copied from the original or added by the Crossles) that Thomas Phillips was MP for Clonmines co Wexford (in quite a different part of Ireland) in 1692. The records certainly confirm that a Thomas Phillips was MP there on that date. Then it shows that he died in c 1700 having written a will dated 12 July 1699. I don't see a will for Thomas Phillips proved in 1700, but others were proved on dates around then including one for Thomas Phillips of Belturbet in 1692, or rather I think that this Thomas died intestate and an administration bond was granted to his brother William. Interestingly, William does not feature in the pedigree that Gina dug out, but does feature on Wikitree which states him to have been one of the six children of Sir Thomas mentioned in his will, citing this paper in the extremely reputable Irish Historical Studies. However, the citation is false, as the paper itself says that the six children mentioned in his will were Dudley, Elizabeth, Dorothy, Chichester, Thomas and Anne - which is what the pedigree has. (It is a Canterbury Court will, avalable on Ancestry.)

Looking at these points and the Crossles' comment, I wonder whether two or possibly thee different people have been merged into one in the pedigree. Sir Thomas certainly had a son Thomas not yet of age when he died in 1636, but whether this Thomas was the person who married Jane Hannah Richardson, was the MP or was the one in Belturbet I don't know.

As to Thomas junior having been a Quaker, I don't see any evidence of it at all, and the person who was an MP certainly couldn't have been one.

Alan,

I am overwhelmed by all the info you were able to present and dissect for me re: Thomas Phillips.  I have often wondered how I would decipher any real information on him since his name is so very common and birth location is unknown.  I know that John Nesbitt Dowling's tree circa 1928-1933 has errors in the older parts of his tree. Was hoping the Society of Friends would have given me greater clarity.  Your point on the Thomas who was MP could not have been a Quaker, is spot on.  Thank you for the attachments, your time, and help figuring out this puzzling case!  

Jane

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