What should the last name at birth (LNAB) be for Fergus Mor, Fergus the Great

Question

Oops on the first empty post... There are at least 6 profiles for what seems to be the same Fergus, son of Erc.

Mor seems like bad choice for last name as that just means Great.

Dalriada seems like a decent choice as this is the region and it lasts for a few generations. None of the profiles use that though.

The possible duplicates I found are:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/M%C3%B3r-41

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mac_Eirc-2

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mor-22

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Maceric-1 (Probably)

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Of_Ireland-15 (Maybe)

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/MacMuredach-1 (maybe)

Answer 1

Sutherland and Stewart (Stuart). Bell, Knox, Gordon, MacMillan, MacDuff, Robertson, MacGill and Burns.

Answer 2

Hopefully John Atkins will chime in soon... but I tend to like "mac Eirc" or "mac Earca"... I know it's patrynomics but the Welsh project sets a good precedent for these issues.

 

(also see Fergus Mor at Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fergus_M%C3%B3r)

Answer 3

The most common convention in use is mac Eirc as the LNAB.  Although, in Scotland, this will be shortened to MacEarca (or later MacAlpin as this is where the myth extends to).  In this persons case mac Eirc as the LNAB would be appropriate as he had an Irish father.  Thank you for taking on the merges there is a confusing mix there.  Drop me a note if you struggle with individuals.

Comments

Bree and Doug,

Thanks, that works for me. I will apply same logic to his father.

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Hi Marty

I am not sure what you mean.  Fergus Mor is known as mac Eirc as he was the "son of" Erc.  His father is not known as mac Earc.  His father, if the legends hold any semblance of truth, was Erc mac Eochaid Muinremuir who, by the way, as I have noticed a couple of the father profiles was never King of Dal Riata.  I think, if you heading back in time, it might be best to take this off line as we are definately into the myth and legend time.

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Doug,

When I mentioned "same logic" for Erc, I mean assume the form mac + his father as LNAB, in this case Eochid. See http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Maceochaid-3. I did not mean literally refering to him as Erc mac Erc. Sorry for the confusion.  

Agree with your comments on myth and legend. It is unclear to me if these individuals are considered mythical or whether there connection to Alpin and later Scottish rulers and the like are considered mythical.

We seem to have 4-5 versions of these early legendary Scots. My main goal of the current editting is to eliminate duplicates to at present a single coherent version of what is out there and document with some sourcing other than gedcom imports.  

Marty Acks

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Ok, we have the same understanding.  It is now thought that there is no direct lineal paternal link between mac Ailpin and the early Irish Kings although there clearly was a link.  The time of mac Ailpin was the time of the unification of the Celt and Gael against the power of the Vikings.  The source material generally quoted for his lineage is unreliable and proven incorrect in at least one "father".  It only appear some four hundred years after the events it represents and conflicts with other near contemporary source material.  We all know today what it is like to gain clear facts regarding someone in the 17th Century or before; difficult in the extreme.  It seems more likely that a partly believeable genealogy was provided to him, as a Pictish King, to boost his ego and gain his support to fight the Vikings.  I will be developing this area, the early British Kings, in a piece of work starting September and would be happy for your help.

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Doug,

Sounds good. Let me know when that project starts up. I'm happy to pitch in. In the mean time I will try to spend some time to trying clean the runway by merging the duplicates and adding some sources for these old Scots. I tend to leave profiles with at least two better sources, probably Wikipedia, and maybe something from Google Books or archive.org. I understand these are secondary sources, but better than what we have have now.  I will also tend leave a short written biographies before moving on. I tend to source using Evidence Expained as a guideline for sourcing. See http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Maceochaid-3 and http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Maceric-1 for examples. Let me know if you have any suggestions or further guidance.  

I'm happy to leave it to others to make the hard calls about myth vs. reality.

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Thank you for cleaning them up; if you get these into a single lineage and merge all the profiles you will have done an awesome job.  We can worry about the bio's later.  You will notice when you do it though that some dates will not line up, just give it your best shot.